Peace of Mind for Pet Parents Episode 025: You’re Not Alone: Our Personal Stories of Life Beyond Death

Episode Transcript: 

Karen Wylie: Hello, and welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents. I'm Karen Wiley, here as always with Gail Pope. And today, Gail and I are going to open up about our own beliefs about death. dying, and what comes after.  Ideas that are shaped by many years of loving and losing, and learning from the animals that have been in our lives. And we hope our conversation will help you also reflect on your own beliefs.

Karen Wylie: So… Gail, shall we start? I will, as always, turn to you to get us started. You may not want to!  We'll find out, we'll find out! Okay, … When did you first start thinking deeply about death and what it means?

Gail Pope: Good grief. ….

Karen Wylie: Yes, a little, phrased a little differently.

Gail Pope: That is a difficult question, because I've got to root back to my childhood… I think… Growing up, and in my teens, I had maybe one or two experiences and then, even later on. But… Probably not really until I was exposed to death and dying a lot with animals, and then it all  flooded back to me and made sense. What about you?

Karen Wylie: Hmm. I think that sounds about right for me as well, because I think for most of us, it's always a combination of our experiences with human loss as well as animal, but I certainly was not raised to think much about death. Other than… the formalities of a wake, and when it’s held, and a funeral and who goes to the cemetery.  It’s like there were rules in ritual. It was all very formalized, and you didn't talk about grief, none of that. So, for me, too, it's when I started experiencing loss with animals.

Especially one I've talked about in the podcast, Annie, who I was very attached to, and I lost her when she was, only eight and a half months old, with very severe hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. So that was a real shock to my system that you can just do your best, and believe everything's going to be fine, and it wasn't fine.

And yet I had some experiences with her that opened up a lot for me, so I think for me too, it was the animals as well that got me really starting to think about death and what might come after.

So, do you believe there's life after death?

Gail Pope: Yes, 100%. And I can say that, because although I don't know what shape or form that it’s in, and I guess I probably won't until I experience it, but, having had a lot of experiences has really cemented the idea for me. It just feels that there has to be more, otherwise a lot of things that happen in our world couldn't be explained and don't make sense.

So why do we push something away that we all really would love to believe in, and yet it's like we don't believe in that, can't believe in that ... .but it does make sense, and normally if we learn something, and it makes sense, we accept it. An afterlife? It does make sense, but we still struggle to accept it.  I would say I do definitely believe that life goes on. And I'd love to know more about it, so it's something that I am fascinated to read about.

Karen Wylie: Yes, I've always been very, very interested in it, very intrigued by  it. And I guess I always… in general, believed that there had to be something, kind of what you're describing, that with all the experiences we have on this planet, in this life, in these bodies, what's the point of what we learn unless we benefit in some way? Because we don't always benefit in these lives.

Gail Pope: Exactly.

Karen Wylie: So, you know that kind of brings up… maybe there's another way we can learn. But I do have to say that … entering mediumship training...

Gail Pope: I was just going to ask you about that, because I think that must be a very interesting story, so come on, share!

Karen Wylie: Well, you know … I'm never going to be hanging a shingle out there as a medium, because I'm not like the ones who were perceiving everything from the time they were children, and can sustain a connection with other dimensions, for a half hour, or an hour, or however long. I mean, I struggle to maintain it for 30 seconds at a time, and then… then it glitches for me, and then I have to get it back for another 30 seconds!

I'm just not that skilled at it. But I had enough positive experiences to reinforce for me that there is indeed life after death. And the first big time that I had a learning was in a Psychic and Mediumship class, and we were trying different techniques, different tools that would basically open up the intuitive side of your brain, rather than the logical side, because it's your intuitive side that is able to connect and reach other vibrations.

Karen Wylie: And, so they paired us up with members of the class, although they didn't tell us ahead of time who we would be paired with. But the instructor, guided through spirit, had us all paired up, and we would have 5 minutes to receive an image. We all had our paints, our watercolor paints, or pastels, or whatever we wanted to use. And through the meditation, whatever image or colors, or whatever we got, we were to draw it. And then, afterwards, Spirit would ‘randomly’ assign us to whoever was supposed to receive that particular message.

And so I'm doing the meditation… and I'm hoping, hoping feeling, “I'm got to come up with something!”  And a big purple butterfly came into my mind. And I'm like, that’s weird, by okay. So I drew and painted the purple butterfly. And… then when I was paired up with this lovely young woman, a fellow student, I showed her my purple butterfly. And she immediately teared up. And she said, That's from my sister. She was murdered three months ago.

And I was shocked… my God, I actually got something from someone who passed over, and her sister is verifying that this is true!  But it wasn't just her words. She turned around, took her hair away from her neck and turned around to show me a purple butterfly tattoo that she had had put on her neck just the week before.

Gail Pope: Oh my goodness!

Karen Wylie: Yes. I'm getting chills as I describe it.

Gail Pope: I think too, I just went all goosey, so it's totally true.

Karen Wylie: Yes, and… and I mean, I'm just in this Zoom room with my co-participant, and I'm just trying to take in that this was real. It was real. I had received something, I had painted it, I showed it. And it was real, and our instructor was there, just popping into the different Zoom rooms to see how everybody was doing. And I asked, did I receive that from my fellow student, or did I receive that from her sister? And our instructor said, oh, no, her sister was here. Her sister IS here. You got it from the sister. And so I was like, OKAY.  Because I could have perhaps gotten it psychically from my fellow student. But it’s not how that particular class was working.

It was Spirit that came through.

And so… not to belabor the point, but then I was in mediumship training once a week for 2 hours every week with other people who wanted to learn how to receive information from those who had passed over. And one of the amazing things about this kind of training is, when you're all there, it's usually about 10… between 8 and 12 people in a group, a class. All your relatives, and all your friends (who have transitioned) show up! And so, you go into a meditation for 10 minutes to get more on their ‘wavelength’ and, then you share what you have received and who you think (the information) is for. And then your classmates confirm for you, they verify for you.

And I had people bringing my father through, my Uncle Tommy, my dear friend Carol, who I often speak about, who was our veterinarian for 15 years. And so, all of my fellow mediums-to-be, they’re receiving this information from people important to me. A couple of my aunts came through at different times, and they would be sharing with me what they were being told, and it was true.

Gail Pope: They just were there for you.

Karen Wylie: Yes. And how would somebody in Ireland, or Sydney, Australia, or… I mean, group members were from all over the world every Sunday night. I didn't know any of them, and they didn't know me, and yet here they'd be describing my pony and his red cart when I was 8 years old. Seriously!

So…I have absolutely no doubt about life after death. I mean, any qualms I have will be about HOW I die, you know, because none of us knows what that's going to be like.  But a lot of times (those who have crossed over) say that they kind of step out (of the body) before a lot of pain. And… they are themselves on the other side. I mean, their personalities, their memories, everything.

That's probably more information than anybody wants to know, but I completely have had it validated to the extent I need, to know that there IS life after death.

And so I believe that for our animals as well.

Gail Pope: Yes. I think… well, you… I'm sitting here listening to you, and it's reminding me of experiences that I had that have gradually shaped my belief. … I mean, gosh, I think probably the very first one I remember, which is a little bit bizarre and different, but… Our son Justin, he was… maybe 4 or 5 at the most. We heard him talking in the night. And so I got up to go and see what was going on, and he was fast asleep, talking, in what sounded like Russian. So I called Richard, listen, what, you know, what is this? And he's like, oh my goodness?

And that came back to me. I hadn't thought about that for a long time. And again, that's kind of one of these spooky things. And then in my 20s, I actually saw a medium. My father, my stepfather, introduced me to a spiritualist church. And I thought it was, you know, a little bit voodoo, but I ended up having a personal reading with the gentleman called Clive. Long story, but he described a dressing table that my grandmother had that, as a child, I used to sit at, and it had a secret drawer, and he described it. So, I mean, nobody could have known that.

And then, literally. not long after Richard died, I went to see a medium here with my daughter, and we had a wonderful time. And the things that she told me…They were all underscored, basically, by the fact that one of the first things she said was that, I have a lady here who wants to… She's coming to you on I think, a grandmother level, and she wants me to describe a piece of furniture, and she described this same dressing table.. So, you know, those two things together really stand out for me, …

And, oh gosh, I mean, since my husband died. all sorts of strange things that I realized - and you can probably help me with this, because it seems to me that Richard can reach me via music, occasionally, by making something that will play music, suddenly come on and play something, or I have a solar hummingbird feeder in the garden, actually not a feeder, it's just lights - hummingbird lights, and he can make one of the colors come on.

And it's just interesting, and I only say he, because the music that might come on is his music, or music that we loved, and just a snatch of it, and then it will go away. Do you believe that there are certain channels that we can use to connect back to the people on Earth, on the Earth plane, maybe.

Karen Wylie: Yes, supposedly. You know, even if you think back to old movies, where lights would be blinking.

Gail Pope: Yes.

Karen Wylie: Apparently, electrical things and electronic things are more easily modifiable by other dimensions. And so, yes, I totally believe that … that certainly could be him, especially with the music he has brought to your attention. That's… that's all… all YOUR music.

Gail Pope: Yes, I mean, you have to describe stuff like that when it's so close and personal to you as magical. And the word magic. has the same kind of connotation, so I think it all fits together. But I think when you… for me, anyway, being present at the deaths, or the transitions, I should say, of so many animals, and also my mum and dad - at the end of their lives. Again, that totally reinforces everything for me, because it just seems so darned obvious. That, you know, they're not here one minute, dead the next.

I think we're living in an age now where science is meeting spirituality, and we're learning so much from science that endorses all these little, strange, spooky things that have happened. And it's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful learning to have, isn't it?

Karen Wylie: Yes, it's like for me, I'd say every few months, I'll read something that validates.

Gail Pope: Yes. Something I've seen, or heard, or felt, or, you know, believed.

Karen Wylie: And it is like science is validating so, so much. … You and I have talked several times on the podcast about our belief, with our own experiences with our pets, that they seem to know that they are dying. And, that's why we have swan songs that are provided to us, where there's special moments, special experiences that many pets provide to us.

And then, in my case, the next day. They're gone. They've died in their sleep, and I typically will feel it when they leave the planet. It's like I'll wake up kind of with a start, and within 5-8 seconds, it's like the vibrational world around me is different than it was when I went to sleep, and it'll be like, oh. They're gone.

Gail Pope: And I too think you can see and feel that when an animal dies. I'm sitting there with them, and… you know, everything is winding down, everything's soft and gentle, and the breathing is ebbing, and sometimes it's difficult to actually spot when the actual last breath comes. I've just had such a strong sense of them ”being”. Once the body… it's like, they've stepped out of that house, but now I can feel them.

Karen Wylie: Yes.

Gail Pope: It's  a very comforting feeling.

Karen Wylie: It is, and it is very different to feel it in that room.

Gail Pope: Yes, it is. Well, that's why we started the three-day process, to honour the physical body after death for our animals. It was very, very strange when we first started doing that, because a lot of people were very… almost offended by the idea. Now, people are starting to really embrace it. And it does make sense. It does make sense, because, one of the things that science has taught us is that when the brain is dead, which is called death, clinically. the mind is still alive. There have been so many experiments and happenings in the medical world that prove that the mind is still alive after clinical death.

Karen Wylie: Right. And, you know, looping back to what I was mentioning earlier. In a mediumship conversation, if someone is able to convey to you certain memories that the medium is being given by one of your relatives or one of your friends, and they're relaying it to you, and you're saying, oh my God! Well, then they're confirming that they crossed over, but they crossed over with a whole lot of their personality, their mind, their memories intact..

It's really, really amazing to think of it that way.

Gail Pope: She's one of our teachers.

Karen Wylie: I don't know that we've talked about this specifically. You've described the Silver Cord, and trying to maintain a spiritual connection with a pet that has passed, while allowing the physical connection to stop, to break, so that the physical death can take place, and the spirit can move on.

So… How do you think, or how do you imagine, the human-animal bond continuing after a pet leaves the planet?

Gail Pope: Well, obviously it's part memory. But the biggest thing - it's heart, isn't it? You know, people say, my heart hurts, and my heart's singing.

Karen Wylie: We relate those things to our heart, but we don't take it seriously.

Gail Pope: And maybe it is serious, and maybe that is the connection, or maybe they reach us in our mind. In our dreams. I mean, we dream, and dream. And very often, it is of animals or people from our past.

So, you know, it's hard to know where does the dream end, and where does reality step in?

Karen Wylie: So true, so true. It's something I've been wondering about at various times. especially. since we've been doing the podcast the last 6 months. And I'll be talking with Tim, my husband, about the various topics that we explored in a particular day. And there have been 3 or 4 episodes out of the 24 so far that I brought up Mr. Hope, a cat that we lost 2 years ago now. … We had him in hospice care for two and a half years, which was wonderful.

And so I'll be telling my husband that I brought up Mr. Hope and what story about Mr. Hope I used to convey a particular learning. And I'll see Chey and Livy, our two Aussies, when they'll hear me say, “Mr. Hope”. And I'll see them just kind of perk up.  They heard me. It's been 2 years, 4 months since he's been gone. So it's not just like last week. And so then I'll look at them and I'll say. “We loved Mr. Hopey, didn't we? We loved him. Is Mr. Hopey here? Have you seen him lately?”

And it's just so strange, because the two of them don't look to the cat tree, they don't look to where Mr. Hope's beds used to be on top of their crates. They don't look up at the window where he used to like to roost in the morning sun. Both of them turn, and they look UP at the ceiling to the right of our fireplace. It happens every single time his name is ever mentioned. And they just are looking up there. Well, Mr. Hope never was 12 feet up in the right-hand corner of the room, you know, ON the ceiling near the fireplace. But it's just so consistent that that's where they look for him.

So for me, and that's giving me… me some gooseys now too! 🙂

I know that those moments are real, and it's real for the pups.

Gail Pope: Isn't it funny - we have these mind-blowing types of experiences and then I guess our mind remembers them, but our brain actually not, as perhaps they don't fit in that kind of intelligent learning.

I just remembered an experience that I had back in my 20s, around the time when my father had introduced me to the spiritualist church, and I think I'd stop going. I don't know about you, but once I feel comfortable with something, then I kind of move on. I accepted what I'd learned and thought it was absolutely wonderful, and then didn't really think about it anymore.

One evening. I was sitting in a rocking chair in the living room, reading a book. I can picture it very clearly now. I was sitting reading, completely engrossed in what I was doing, and then all of a sudden, I was bent over and it was like my body was against a wall, and I was caught between the wall and the ceiling, and my head was down. And there was a feeling of shock. And then seeing myself sitting in the chair reading the book. But then, next, boom, I was reading my book back in my chair. Gosh, I'd forgotten about that.

Karen Wylie: Yes, it's very interesting, isn't it? And if we think of… when our animals are on the path to dying. And they're declining, and… you know, my goal, as is yours, is always to allow for a natural transition at home, whenever possible. So that's what's happening.

And the last week of most of my pets' deaths, I find them staring off into space, but always to a particular part of the room. And I, for whatever reason, i have started assuming that they are seeing their relatives and other animals that they knew in their lifetime that had passed on before.

Just like we have humans who are in hospice care in a hospital, or dying at home, and they start staring out into space, or even reaching their arms out - and then if someone asks them what's going on, or who are you talking to, they say, oh, I'm talking to my mother, or I'm talking to my sister.

So we know from humans that when they get close to that point of physical death, it's like, I think of it as they are in both dimensions. They're leaving the physical dimension, and they've got kind of, like, one foot in the next dimension, that allows them to see and feel and hear from the other side, while they're still leaving their body. Which could  take many more days or another week or so.

But, because of that, I think I interpret the same kind of thing happening for my animals, and that's what led me to start doing what I call a “calling out of the ancestors”, where when I see them starting to look out into space and be kind of fixed for a few minutes. I start using the names of cats or dogs that I know they knew in life. And I say, oh, so, has Sissy come back to see you? And so forth. I start using the names, and I have the sense that that is exactly what's happening for our pets as well.

So when we talk about the human-animal bond and connection to the other side, I really do think our pets also are continuing to connect with other pets on the other side. Maybe if I leave sooner than some of my pets, maybe they'll be looking for me too, and I can connect with them.

Gail Pope: You know, I think that this conversation brings a warmth to us. But then it also makes us realize that it takes away a lot of the fear that we have of death, so the more we learn about these spooky things that happen, the more we can embrace them, the more it takes away the fear.

For some reason, Frazier's coming back into mind at the moment. I'm sure you've heard his story, and probably everybody else has too. But, you know, when you're a cat and you get to the age of 34, and then you play games for months with your family by dying, stopping breathing. dead, and then you open your only one eye that you've got, and you say, “Hi, fooled you!”, and you come back to life. In those days when that was happening. It was pretty scary, and it was just… Plain weird. But now, looking back, it's so reassuring. All of these things are reassuring stories for us, aren't they?

Karen Wylie: There certainly are. There's more to life.

Gail Pope: then we know, and it's fascinating and exciting, and… we just… I think we just live in part of the universe where we're on a certain wavelength, and who knows what's functioning on other wavelengths around us? And when we step out of our bodies, we presumably step into a different what's the word? It's not wavelength, it's a different….

Karen Wylie: Vibration or frequency.

Gail Pope: Vibration, that's it, Yeah, it's a different vibration. Which is maybe when you're working in mediumship? You're tuned to that other vibration.

Karen Wylie: Correct. That's exactly what happens. It's when we're picking up intuitively from a living person, that's one frequency and one vibration. But when we're picking it up from someone who's passed over, that's a different frequency or vibration.

And I'll say it's the same with animals. It's one thing to communicate with a living animal and a different vibration or frequency to an animal that is passed over. And just because someone is able to do one doesn't mean they do all of them equally well or equally as often.

But… I think, given the experiences that you and I have had over several decades' time. It's… it's one of the reasons we continue to want to do this work, and why we want to continue to help other people, because… The mystery of both life and death has been put in front of us for us to experience in different ways, and so often, when one of our pets is dying, we want to prevent them from leaving us, God, you know, we want to have every minute possible with every one of them.

But then we're focused on fighting the process that is going to ultimately take them. It can kind of cloud or totally block. the possibilities of understanding how you can continue to have a relationship with them after their physical body is no more, and they have left, they have transitioned.

And as you were saying… that was something you were saying when we started out, you know, whether it's that we're feeling them through our heart. Or whether we're thinking about them through our mind and our memories, and we're connecting with them in that way, or whether we're stating their names and invoking them in some way, like I was describing with my Aussies looking up to the ceiling when I talk about their cat, their Mr. Hope.

There are ways to continue to have that relationship on some level that you're comfortable with and that you want. And  that's one of the things, I think keeps me wanting to… to share this with people and… and help people become more comfortable with…. the loss of our pets, because it's not a complete loss.

Gail Pope: Exactly. I mean, that's… I hadn't really put it all together until… until now. This is a fascinating conversation, but… One of the things that I always share with people is the idea of looking at the body you're living in as your house. And then, when you're dying, you are stepping out of that house.

And so I think when people can embrace that idea, because it does make sense. If you have a belief that something else is there, then it really… it really forms a really good foundation to help you be less fearful of death.

None of us know exactly what it feels like, I guess, unless we've come back and we talk about it, and then nobody else believes anyway, so… Until we've had the personal experience of near death or death and returning, it's hard for us to know exactly what to expect. So, fear is always going to remain.

But I think if you have a strong belief in all the things that we've talked about today happening to so many people. Many people say, oh no, I don't believe in that, but when they get into a conversation like this, suddenly they're, oh, you know, I remember this or that when I was young. I wonder what that was.

Karen Wylie: That's the thing, I think… I don't think you have to have a strong belief in what comes after. In fact,  I don't think you have to have a knowing about what it is that may come after, but if you're just open to the possibility.

Gail Pope: It helps.

Karen Wylie: And then you have that possibility of… of… Restoring some level of connection with your pet that has crossed over. … Which is really a wonderful thing. And I always just… now I just always assume it's possible. ….

Gail Pope: Yes, yes.

Karen Wylie: I don't wonder about it anymore, I just… I know it is possible. And I should spend more time linking up with everybody over there instead of, … Writing and analyzing situations and….

Gail Pope: I'd like to please, can I book a session? I'm ready!

Karen Wylie: I'm better at helping other people figure out how to do it themselves than to do it for them, but my training was with the Spiritualist Church in the UK as well. I think I told you that. Almost all of my training has been from that tradition, which is really strong and wonderful. …

Karen Wylie: So now I'm trying to figure out how we end this conversation, because we've  really looked at so much today..

And It is fascinating. It's wonderful that we've had these experiences with other people who've passed on, and with so many of our pets that have passed on, that… that we have had these wonderings validated.

For us, I think especially as I age, the older I get, I think the more important it is to… to just have that positive attitude, and believe that so much more is possible than we  know about now.

Gail Pope: Yes. And so… In closing, it's hard… it's hard to… To round out the conversation. But I think the old saying… I have two things that I always feel are complementary to almost everything that we talk about.

One is baby steps, taking baby steps through life, and through dying, and through learning and living. Taking everything slowly, absorbing, moving on, And just living with love. Because love is the greatest healer, and you put love and baby steps together into this world of the don't knows, and the might-knows, and all the spooky things, and they fit. They fit beautifully, don't they?

Karen Wylie: They certainly do. And our pets were all about love every minute they were alive. In their houses, in their bodies, being with us.

They gave to us every moment of every day, and I think, in many ways… each of them still does.

Gail Pope: Yes.

Karen Wylie: Especially in the memories that you and I have of various animals, and the lessons we learned that we share.

Gail Pope: That's another conversation.

Karen Wylie: It IS another conversation, so we're going to stop here! 🙂

I guess I want to say that whatever you believe comes after, what might come after physical death, as Gail says, it's the love that is going to carry us through all the time. And we hope today's conversation may have brought you some comfort. Maybe some connection with us, and connection thinking about pets that have passed on.

And all of it, I think, is a reminder that we're not alone. That you're not alone. And we'll look forward to seeing you next week. Thank you for being with us. Bye-bye.

Gail Pope: Thank you, goodbye.